http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/2 ... ?hpt=hp_t2

Rick Santorum recently claimed that colleges are driving kids from religious beliefs. The author argues that other factors within the church are a much bigger factor.

Yes that explains the religious side of a process where extreme left/right opinions represent all else stuck in between. Academia is where the left extreme normally works out of, so like churches (one way or another) also gets mired in all the mostly made-for-media extremism that has PZ driving nails through pages of scripture and William Dembski squeezing the head of a Charles Darwin doll in a vise.

The author asserts significant increases in the proportions of nonbelievers to believers since the 1980s, but doesn’t cite his source. Has anyone seen hard data on this subject? It may well be true, and anectdotally I suspect it is, but I can’t point to anything substantive to back it up. It seems like an obvious topic for a social scientist---- select a group of incoming college freshman and track their religious attitudes and activities over the next four years, using samples from several different universities and colleges that vary in size, student demographics, choice of major etc. I would bet there is a large array of variables at play here and that most of them have nothing to do with the institution itself.

Jack, the colleges have their role in this. Its not just about education, but about instilling a world view.

I am seeing more and more of this:

http://richarddawkins.net/videos/585835 ... ral-allies

Jack

Secular higher education has a great deal of responsibility for confusing issues of religion. This of course is nothing new, if you recall the very popular Butler Act was established on the grounds that the teaching of man's evolution from lower animals would have a detrimental effect on faith. The Butler Act led to the Scopes Monkey Trial.

One of the main problems within the church is the lack of apologetic instruction. Being unprepared for the onslaught of atheist propaganda has much to do with the decline in church attendance by the younger gereration.The humanist worldview in the US is well established, government funded and running well.

Mike's PZ youtube is a good illistration. PZ's comment, religion and science aren't compatible and atheism and science are is simply untrue on both accounts. PZ is not referring to science but rather to the belief that evolution on the grand scale is the ultimate and only foundational explanation for our existence. The Bible on the other hand is compatible with science by not with evolutions faith based propositions. PZ is not referring to religion but specifically to the Christian Bible which questions his faith.

Depending on which evidence is considered acceptable both the evolution's untestable fantasies and the Bibles creation stories are unfalsifiable.

There are many factors affecting the attraction to Christianity, but one thing that the author failed to recognize is this movement is prophetic. The great falling away. http://www.truechristian.org/great_fall ... 1intro.htm

I think one of the obvious factors, which has been going on since Socrates time, I imagine, is that college is the time where young people first step away from the families and enter a broader and most likely more diverse world. Colleges introduce students to many new ideas - that's what they're supposed to do.

It's also a time where young people's abstract thinking skills are blossoming, and they often feel a need to be both independent and idealistic. All of these things contribute to reassessing the beliefs one was raised with.

But reassessing and changing one's beliefs are two different things. The article's point is that there are aspects of the church's behavior that don't stand up well to young people's scrutiny, both in terms of factual issues (evolution, young earth, etc.) and social issues. If religious belief had a solider foundation in students' lives, it would not be so likely to be abandoned during these critical moving-to-adulthood years. However, as the article points out, the fact that religious belief has become entangled with scientific, social, and political perspectives that are open to question, one's religious beliefs have become more susceptible to being seen as wrong, and as being something to move away from, not something to solidify.

The fact that this often happens to college age students as they mature needs to be separated from any particular teachings of colleges themselves.

Jack....It's also a time where young people's abstract thinking skills are blossoming, and they often feel a need to be both independent and idealistic. All of these things contribute to reassessing the beliefs one was raised with.

Some in the Amish sect has this "adult phase" for their teens called "Rumspringa". If I recall, a few years ago there was a documentary on NatGeo (highly overboard, in my opinion) when they can go out and party and do whatever they want to do to evaluate their priorities. While, too over hyped, this particular phenomenon is of interest to anyone in the field of evolutionary psychology, history, comparative religion and cultural anthropology to see from different angles. A large number of the kids (overwhelming majority if I remember) comes back to the Amish life style.

But reassessing and changing one's beliefs are two different things. The article's point is that there are aspects of the church's behavior that don't stand up well to young people's scrutiny, both in terms of factual issues (evolution, young earth, etc.) and social issues.

Every generation is better than the one before (in their own opinion, of course). Yet, it's undeniable that huge strides have been made over the years by younger generation. It's a fact and can be relied upon as consistently as Earth going around the Sun.

It looks like developed countries are becoming more and more liberal and even the past few years in America now are showing that social causes and equality in income distribution (75-80% of Americans are for higher taxes on the rich and corporations), equality of human rights (gay issues), tolerance to religion or irreligion are taking hold in the younger generation.

In the open market of ideas, the most dogmatic ones would always lose in the long term. We live in an open world and it's not going to change. This needs to be welcomed with open arms. Unless, cutting other people's arms is part of your dogma.

DagnyWener




You're probable right about the 75 to 80% of America what higher taxes. Can you figure out why? In 2009 the top 25% paid 87.30% of the taxes 2008 they paid 86.34%

Half of the country pay next to nothing and most get back more than they paid.

How long do you think this is going to last. The US has the highest corporate tax in the world and there is a depleting attraction for business to locate here.

Check this out. http://www.focus.com/fyi/10-big-busines ... ed-abroad/ 10 big Businesses that have moved their headquarters abroad to pay less U.S. taxes out.

The US is a great place to live, but it's not the only place to live. Renouncing US citizenship NOT too expensive for the wealthy

http://www.nostate.com/2382/renouncing- ... z1o6ilXSVT

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/ ... tizenship/

If the goal is to shut down American industry the Obama clan is headed in the right direction.

Here's another problem http://althouse.blogspot.com/2012/01/wh ... nd-as.html

I won't go into much detail but one of my suppliers just bought 20 acres in China for a factory. There not building it here

One of the problems with NAFTA and GAT is it puts us and foreign labor on a level playing field. There is lots of workers ready to go for such luxury items like indoor toilets and food everyday. That's our competition.

Stark warning emerges from science summit

A stark theme emerged from an annual scientific get-together in Vancouver: the world must be helped to believe in science again or it could be too late to save our planet.

http://www.physorg.com/news/2012-02-sta ... ummit.html

Here's an article that adds some data to some of the points I made earlier in the thread:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/04/opini ... l?emc=eta1

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/ps ... 860f103b59

PSEUDOSCIENTIFIC health courses are undermining the credibility of Australian universities, according to an editorial in a leading medical journal.

Homeopathy, iridology, reflexology, kinesiology, healing touch therapy, aromatherapy and energy medicine are offered at more than a third of the nation's universities.
But some academics are angry about what they see as a dumbing down of universities by offering courses that lack scientific credibility.

"Their scientists and students should be concerned by any retreat from the primacy of experimental, evidence-based approach in science and medicine.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/ps ... z1oBeGY100

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/ps ... z1oBdvqoSb

Thanks for that link Jack--- it appears that social scientists indeed have examined the evolving attitudes of college-aged students. Interestingly, they find only small or insignificant shifts away from prior religious or conservative mindsets as results of the college experience--- not at all what Rick Santorum and his right-wing brethren would have us believe. It seems that those liberal elitist professors who infest the campuses and allegedly pollute the young minds with atheism, communism, and other un-American ideas aren’t so influential after all. I’m not surprised. If a kid enters college as a creationist, odds are very good that he or she will graduate as a creationist--- maybe a little more confused, but still a creationist.

A rather interesting short video that underlines the importance of education and being "intelligently ignorant" about the "big questions".

When scientists and those who want kids to get higher education are described as arrogant, I just shake my head.

The arrogance of being thick as a brick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMAt0a5E ... re=related