In context I don't see where saying, Ha ha. Suck it ,Israel." can be taken as constructive criticism. It's not about their water distribution or governmental taxation or any specific shortcoming, but rather it's a broad swipe of bigotry across the entire fabric of the nation and it's people.

Unesco has added to the legitimacy of an illegitimate people, the so called Palestinians. Unesco's folly will not add anything to the imaginary peace process. But it may add fuel to a much larger. fire. http://www.masada2000.org/been-had.html

False. The Israeli govt is not Judaism and certainly does not represent all Jews. That is just a lazy way of avoiding criticism instead of discussing it. If you're too cowardly to address criticism, just censor it!


False. Criticism of Israel over their treatment of Palestinians is not the same thing as advocating, or even passively allowing the destruction of Israel. Iran can suck it too, but their threats, in the context of this discussion, are a giant red herring.

I sense the major problem with Mike is a binary thought process - the narrow "you're either with me or against me" mindset so prevalent in conservative circles. Its just lazy thinking. In Mike's world, there are only two sides - pro-Israel and anti-Israel. If I criticize Israel's reaction to UNESCO, I must fall onto the anti-Israel side and Mike automatically associates with me all things (especially the worst things) anti-Israel ~ anti-semitism, anti-Zionism, pro-muslim extremism, pro-Israel getting nuked, pro-Holocaust, etc etc etc. This is just beyond lazy, its intellectually bankrupt. Unfortunately Mike is rather infamous on this site for this tactic. In how many threads has he attempted to falsely associate hospital deaths with science, science with atheism, atheists with everything ever written by Sam Harris.

Iran actually reminds me a lot of Mike. They seem to need something to be outraged about. Israel-Palestine doesn't directly affect them, but they just want to claim some "us vs them" tribal allegiance to one of the parties, and scream and shout without any deference to facts or reason.


Another pig-headed attempt to equate criticism of Israel's reaction to UNESCO and anti-Zionism. Who says the Jews have to go? I support Israel's right to exist, I would just like Israeli officials to stop acting like children in some instances. And before Mike can pounce with another ridiculous false equation, "Israeli officials acting like children in some instances" does not equal support for terrorism against Israel. Hamas is another group who can suck it.


Now you're trying to equate atheism with anti-semitism. Pathetic gibberish, but par for the course.

edit: incorrect use of the word 'equivocation'

Well ABO, I don't have any kind of "vast knowledge of monkey tales", but I do have at the very least, a layman's understanding of biology and the average person's ability to draw conclusions about things such as human origins, evolution, etc, when presented with a mountain of accumulated scientific evidence about it.

Just like you (I assume), I was raised in a christian family and I was brought up believing in what the bible has to say human origins. As I got older and more educated about such things (not exactly sure what age I was or when it happened), I gradually came to realize that science and the methods of science, are a much more reliable was to discover things about the natural world, than trying to rely on some antiquated collection of parchments written by men who lived sometime around the iron age.

If I had to give an specific example of something I learned from science at a young age, which really started turning my head about such things, it would be the discovery of DNA and it's implications in relation to human origins and all life on this planet in general. As I'm sure you probably know, every living thing on earth is related and constructed of the 4 basic chemicals of life, Guanine (G), Adenine (A), Thymine (T), Cytosine (C). Even my seven year old daughter understood this simple fact when it was properly explained to her. I'll never forget the excitement in her eyes when she asked me if the bugs, grass, and trees, etc. were "her relatives" . Of course it isn't much of a stretch to realize that some living things on earth are obviously more closely related than others. The fact that we share so much of our DNA in common with other primates (to me anyways), hardly constitutes what your calling "monkey tales". And to answer your question about whether or not I think that evolution is "undirected", my simple answer to that is,"Why not?". All of the evolutionary dead ends that resulted from non-beneficial mutations at those points in the past were obviously not directed, so why cherry pick the successful ones and claim that they were directed?

Added for clarification: You may or may not be arguing for directed -vs- undirected mutations. I'm just saying if you accept the idea/evidence that mutations occur, and we are here as a result of those mutations, then they must either operate one way or the other: directed or undirected (random).

So ABO, in your "vast knowledge of mystical tales", in which way do you think mutations operate- "directed" or "undirected" ? ...really

Also, I don't want to further derail the topic here with your question, so feel free to start a new thread to answer that one.

Like Iran, Hamas calls for the destruction of Israel.

http://www.cfr.org/israel/hamas/p8968

And Hamas is the Freely Elected Ruling Body of the Palestinians, who have continued their use of terror attacks on civilians, who have refused to issue an unqualified statement that they recognize Israel's right to exist, and who have turned down offers of a Palestinian State because the proposed state is not "big enough". The trouble is, if it were much bigger than the West Bank Israel would only be about 40 miles wide at Mid Point and easily subjected to Military Destruction by Conventional Means. (And this is addition to the statment by the Iranian Leadership that their goal is to wipe Israel off the map. Ironically, the stated goal of the Iranian leadership would also take out the Palestinians, who they obviously could care less about.)

Those who think that calling for the destruction of Israel is not an attack on Jews are ignoring the fact that Israel is the only Jewish state in the world, while there are many Muslim states hundreds of times larger than Israel. To call for the destruction of Israel and pretend like Jews are not the target is mere posturing by cowards who are afraid to come out and admit what they are. Cowards who like to accuse people of being willing to commit murder while the policies they advocate would result in murder.

The Jews are not going to sit back and passively go to destruction like they did the last time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

So, Ha Ha, suck it Anti Semites!

Bryan

Thanks for your history . My story is similar. But I had not use for the Bible or anything in it. It was actually around age 24 when I started realizing there was more going on here than just a materialistic existence. I started reading the Bible and I was shocked to find out it explained the heart of man and the reason why we live and why we die.

Your recognition of DNA as supporting evolution is the opposite for me. Using the obvious variation of speciation to justify the belief in pond scum to people is like throwing a spit ball over the moon.
Your thoughts are a product of your training not the results of a reasonable explanation. Considering beneficial mutational odds is smoothing evolutionist can't consider because they are so destructive to the theory they must be declared unscientific. There is a reasonable explanation that make perfect scene. All living thing were built of material from the earth and sutiable for earth's environment. With the exception of one component that being life itself. When man was created he was made very good as the book says. And maintained in a environment which preserved that condition. After choosing to not follower the laws which preserved that environment he began to degenerated along with the rest of creation. This is exactly what we see. Lining up extinct dead stuff to show support for common ancestry provides only questions not answers. Common ancestry with pooches, peddles and worms can not be duplicated or witnessed it can only be believed.

If the Bible was just an old antiquated collection of parchments written by men who lived sometime around the iron age I would agree with you. But apparently you have never really set down and checked it out. Science does have a method of investigation and there is some reliability to it but it is an investigative process into the unknown not a source of truth. The bible is either true or false. The interpretation of what is written may conflict, but it's content doesn't'. You seven year old daughter will trust and believe what you teach her. And with the proper amount of persuasive information and a real rewarding purpose you could train her to become a suicide bomber. The belief we are related to bugs and trees is a bonafide New Age Religion. I don't think you were educated as much as indoctrinated. Intimidation and ridicule is what sells the story not hard facts. You're and idiot if question the theory. That's the incentive.


What has convince me the story of common ancestry is just a story is the lack of genuine evidence. And it's not just the appointments of age to particular fossils because them must fit on phylogenic tree but the overall denial and evasive spirit that permeates the in entire subject that surounds the teaching of evolution. All other explanations are not just questionable but unacceptable. The followers and promotors of evolution's claims have more similarities to a religious cult than a group of people looking for answers to our origin.

No need to start a new thread, The prophetic events happening in Isirael right now give far more credibility to the Bible than all the monkey parts ever found or fabricated to substantiate evolution's claims.

Proverbs 22:6 Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it.

"Kill The Jews!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtt8V25l ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmxR6jYR ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vtt8V25l ... re=related

The evidence for common ancestry is excellent and getting better all the time:
http://lclane2.net/myoglobin.html

The fossil record indicated common ancestry. Protein and nucleic acid sequences provided independent tests. In fact sequences of individual genes provide independent tests of common ancestry.

Failure to accept this evidence indicates misunderstanding of molecular biology.

Bryan, I can always count on Les to prove my point.


Unacceptable thoughts.
http://www.icr.org/article/human-chimp- ... -ancestry/

http://www.psrast.org/junkdna.htm

These are apologetics, not science.

Why of course. Anything that might question the sacred doctrine is apologetics . Absolutely nothing can can stand in the way of this most sacred religious humanist doctrine. Even new scientific discovery is unacceptable. It's not about science its about the rejection of a creator.

Wells points out that the champions of junk DNA should be held accountable for keeping the myth alive and failing to demonstrate the self-correcting character of science. By quoting their arguments, he shows how they all demonstrate a vested interest in a Darwinian approach to evolution (i.e. demonstrating past tinkering that has accumulated nonsense DNA in the genome) and a hostility to ID. http://www.arn.org/blogs/index.php/lite ... n_of_evolu

Once again you've proven my point.

Things looking good for the Brotherhood.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2811350/posts

security officials in Israel are preparing for the worst.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/ ... s-UW2DFIak

Here it comes!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... warns.html

accidental edit. recreating from browser cache....



Your welcome. I only mentioned it so you might better understand what had shaped (or imo indoctrinated ), my perceptions of such things from early on.



Please expand on this some more for me in your own words. No links please, just your own words.



Before I say any more about this, I would like to know if you even accept that mutations occur (that affect the human genome)? If so, do you think that those mutations are directed or undirected? I would appreciate your honest answer on this. It's not a hard question.



What's more important to me with my kids isn't so much what I teach them about science, but more how I go about explaining things. I make it clear to them that science in the business of discovering things about the world by collecting evidence and trying to make sense of that evidence. I always tell them to keep an open mind, and a healthy attitude of questioning everything as they learn while growing up. Blind belief in the absence of any evidence at all is foolish. Even at their age now, I've made it quite clear to them the difference between education and indoctrination. And let me tell you…. personally it's a narrow tight rope to walk when the mother of your children is a Southern Baptist from the deep south! ..... not kidding

Bryan no problem with your questions, but are you saying your wife is a Southern Baptist?