View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:17 pm




Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
 This forum is closing - farewell to you all! 
Author Message

Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:16 pm
Posts: 1547
Post This forum is closing - farewell to you all!
Hi all. This may seem precipitous, but I've decided to bring this forum to an end. It will stay open for read-only access, and I believe you will still be able to PM people if you wish, for a while.

I appreciate the participation of many of you over the years, especially for the informed responses to various posters, as well as the links to interesting articles.

This forum started as part of KCFS's initiative to educate people about evolution and issues related to evolution-denial. These past few years, however, it has hung on primarily because I wanted a place to have some internet interaction with people about these issues. As I have stated before, there can be good reasons for having discussions (or whatever you want to call them) with people who have very different perceptions and attitudes than one does. I have benefitted from finding out how such people think and from practicing articulating my own beliefs; and possibly I (and some of you also) have had some positive influence on lurkers. One of the neat things about the internet is you can find and interact with like-minded souls, and thus have an outlet for expression that would be hard to find otherwise.

On the other hand, I think for me those benefits have declined, and are not likely to start up again. I feel like I've plumbed the various depths of the perceptions and attitudes of people different than me, and that I am more caught up in somewhat uselessly repeating myself than I am continuing to learn anything from my discussions. My feeling is that those few of you who still check in with some regularity probably also don't see this place as providing a particular significant contribution to your life these days (unless you get a bit of masochistic pleasure from returning again and again to the same dead-end discussions.)

I just read an article in which the author said something that I've learned before, but have trouble acting upon: "In the end, what we pay the most attention to defines us.” I will miss having a small community of like-minded people to share some thoughts with, but I think, for me, on balance, I would be better off not continuing to paying attention to the various unproductive arguments and attitudes that persistently reoccur here.

I will allow responses to this thread for a day or two, but not back-and-forth discussion, and no more responses to ongoing threads. I’ll also delete comments in this thread that seem inappropriate to the topic of the closing of the forum. I know I’m being a little dictatorial here. I’ve tried to run an even-handed forum, and I have tried to keep my personal beliefs and opinions about people separate from my role as forum admin. However, here at the end I want things to end the way I want them to.

Best wishes to all of you,
Jack

_________________
"I would rather live with uncertainty than believe things that are not true." (paraphrased from Feynman)


Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:52 pm
Profile

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:02 pm
Posts: 280
Post Re: This forum is closing - farewell to you all!
Jack,

Thanks for hanging in there all these years.

Can you leave the thread Documentaries on Science & Religion up so we can be able to add documentaries to it? I can rename it on Science only Let me know.

Also, for those interested, there is Topeka Naturalism Group on Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/groups/13708101 ... 965990867/

and I just the other day discovered Kansas Citizens for Science has a FaceBook page too.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kansas-Ci ... 9157320653

I am sure these groups will be able to direct anyone to other science oriented discussions.

Check out Facebook and also Meetup.com for like minded groups.


Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:16 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:18 pm
Posts: 16
Post Re: This forum is closing - farewell to you all!
Jack,

Thanks for all your very hard work. We actually met once many many years ago at the University of Kansas when I was an undergrad. I thanked you then for your dedication to the defense of science and I thank you again tonight. Its funny, I recently rediscovered the forum (I contributed more regualry before grad school and before I moved) and now its coming to an end. Back I guess, just in time to say thanks.

Cheers


Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:03 am
Profile

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:30 pm
Posts: 105
Location: Wichita
Post Re: This forum is closing - farewell to you all!
Jack,

One of the best things about this forum has been your well thought out and articulated comments supporting scientific concepts against some of the most irrational posters I have read anywhere. And, you mostly did it with a 'smile on your face' though you did slip and call 'a spade, a spade' on occasion. I was a regular 'lurker', but really didn't have much time to get involved in long endless discussions that were philosophically unwinable. One of the things I learned a few years back in an apologetics class, was that a person could pretty much defend any position philosophically by just making things up. Then defend it from their own 'logical' thinking. Facts didn't matter.

It is too bad that this forum was becoming dominated by anti science crusaders who can't or won't accept the objective reality of science in their life. I found it entertaining reading and will probably go back to reading 'The Panda's Thumb' on occasion.

Thanks for hanging in here so long. Hope to catch up with you in person in the near future.

Harry G.


Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:14 am
Profile

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:02 pm
Posts: 280
Post Re: This forum is closing - farewell to you all!
This site has been a great source of current information on scientific developments, as well as contributed to my understanding of the mentality of the "blind faith believer".

I recommended a couple of sites above that can be helpful for the members to be in touch with similar topics.

Also, I was wondering if you guys have any other sites that have similar direction?

I'd recommend Richard Dawkins site - they have regular updates on science, politics, religion and blog as well - http://www.RichardDawkins.net I never blogged there but often go for news updates. Check it out.


Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:08 am
Profile

Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:18 pm
Posts: 171
Location: Atchison, KS
Post Re: This forum is closing - farewell to you all!
Thanks for keeping this forum going Jack. It has been incredibly valuable to my growth as an educator, especially my first few years teaching. There was a whole world of fundamentalism that took me by surprise, they do not prepare you for all the loaded questions you get. This forum has.

And for those of you who didn't know Jack was my one of my math teachers in high school - he was ok :P


Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:11 am
Profile

Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:55 am
Posts: 438
Location: Washington, DC
Post Re: This forum is closing - farewell to you all!
I'm sorry its come to this Jack, but I understand.

In the last week or two I have been considering walking away as it just isn't worth it to take the time to fact check peoples' posts, research a response, and formulate an argument just to have the anti-science crowd dismiss the facts and continue to blithely repeat their same poor arguments, or run away from the argument altogether. I know I can be a sarcastic SOB at times and I'm sorry for my share of the tension here, but I feel the best (well, maybe not the best, but the most satisfying) way to combat the ridiculous is with ridicule.

I found this forum back in 2004 when I moved to Kansas from NY to start grad school, and I found myself in the most bizarre of culture wars. Yankee conservatism is definitely not the same as bible belt conservatism. I became intrigued with the anti-science crowd, specifically the anti-evolution zealots running the BOE and the op-ed pages. My research field is climate change and I quickly became acquainted with the climate-deniers as well. This board, as small and out of the way that it is, was my first introduction to Skepticism. I was introduced and inspired to follow up on biblical criticism, logical fallacies, taoism, christian apologetics, the philosophy of science, etc. Along the way, I learned some biology, cosmology, some new and old testament, history, political science, and more. I was introduced to Dawkins and Shermer. Arguments with posters on this board introduced me to Sam Harris, Hector Avalos, Margaret Sanger, and others whom I honestly didn't know anything about until I looked up their work to fact check what turned out to be dishonest criticisms.

So, thanks, Jack. And thanks to the other posters here, villains and heros alike, who have given me lots of things to think about over the past couple of years.

Cheers,
OH

_________________
"Your comments here aren't based on anything other than secular reasoning and they have no merit at all." ~ ABO


Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:49 am
Profile

Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:55 am
Posts: 438
Location: Washington, DC
Post Re: This forum is closing - farewell to you all!
I'd just like to add that the real shame of this board closing, is that I think its ultimately what the anti-science crowd was aiming for. I believe they saw discussion taking place that was threatening to their ideology, and one by one, they came in, sat down in the middle of the room, and held their version of a sit-in protest, petulantly refusing to participate in a good-faith discussion. Many (all?) in the anti-science crowd here have openly voiced their disgust with this forum and its members at one point or another. They were repeatedly reminded that their participation here is voluntary and they could go at any time. But they stayed. Why? Their goal wasn't to participate in good-faith discussion with like-minded people... it was to antagonize and disrupt. It was to prevent a discussion from happening. :(


Edit: lol. Just got a less-than-friendly farewell PM from one of the people implicated above and they signed off, "Now, on to the next site," which seems to me a confirmation of what these people do... seek, destroy, move on.

_________________
"Your comments here aren't based on anything other than secular reasoning and they have no merit at all." ~ ABO


Last edited by Oh Henry on Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:13 am
Profile

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:02 pm
Posts: 280
Post Re: This forum is closing - farewell to you all!
Jack,

May I ask you to consider the alternative to closing this board? - just let it be and transfer it's management to one of the old timers here or several of them as equal co moderators?

You may just walk away from it and pop in every now and then? But the board will continue? You can change the name of it since it seems to be very loosely if at all affiliated with KCFS? Rename it Kansas Citizens for Science for All or something like this that would reflect Kansas connection. Would be a shame if it all went away. Hope you will consider? While I am not an old timer, I'll be glad to be the moderator.

I am assuming that this board is free?


Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:31 am
Profile

Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 10:30 pm
Posts: 1568
Location: Sebring, Florida
Post Re: This forum is closing - farewell to you all!
Jack

Thanks for all you've done. I have great respect for your efforts here. KCFS has been without question the best if not only location where the opposing views of evolution and creation can be shared and questioned. You've done a good job.

To me researching both sides of an issue is the only real way to discover where the truth lies. As a Christian evolution has been of great interest to me, in that if it's validity stands it should dissolve any real value or hope for mankind that the Bible has to offer. I've wanted to learn firsthand as much as possible about evolution and the people who believe it and why. You've have provided that possibility.

So much of evolution's information gives little details and just conclusions based on what some mystery person said. Being able to question so many knowledgeable people has been enlightening. I've learned a lot from you and the others. And I appreciate it.

With what I've seen and learned over the years of chatting here I'm more convinced that ever that the theory of evolution is not just a product of miss guided science but the work of the devil himself. My faith in God has grown because of you and those here. No pun or offense meant to you or anyone.

Even though we may have different views I consider us all friends.

Thank you so much, best wishes, farewell to all. Bill Dailey - ABO


Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:23 pm
Profile

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:41 pm
Posts: 389
Post Re: This forum is closing - farewell to you all!
Thanks for all your work, Jack. More and more the research indicates that simply educating the anti-science faction about science just isn't enough, and that research is supported by the interactions I've read the last couple of years here.

Stay safe and well, Jack & other admins. I hope if we need this venue again it'll be easy to re-start.

Onward and upward!
Cheryl

_________________
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing” – Edmund Burke

Stand Up For REAL Science!


Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:18 am
Profile

Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:04 am
Posts: 1456
Location: Massachusetts
Post Re: This forum is closing - farewell to you all!
I don’t know what to say Jack. I can’t blame you from needing a break from the conflict. But soon enough the science standards will be a major issue again. The KCFS forum left stuck where we’re at now in 2012 will look awful. At the moment it’s just slow. And science at its best required accomplished scientists like Joe Meert, who were once here. So maybe the next round of scientific controversy that might come from Kansas will bring new life to KCFS to help get it going for a while again, like in the old-days when all eyes were on Kansas which made the forum challenging in a way that later led to the self-assembly demonstration that was later published by NSTA and more that came from here, I hope you can be proud of helping make happen too.

Jack Krebs wrote:
This forum started as part of KCFS's initiative to educate people about evolution and issues related to evolution-denial.

I learned a good amount for what has been thrown around the forum. Will always have to credit you for providing the science/religion arena.

[admin: I deleted the rest of the post - this thread is not a place to continue topics that have been more than adequately covered in the past.]

_________________
Premise:
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.
Google Viewer
MS Word Format


Last edited by Gary S. Gaulin on Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:53 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:11 pm
Posts: 400
Post Re: This forum is closing - farewell to you all!
Mr Krebs! :(. Wait!

I sent you a PM about this. :)

Please postpone shutting this completely down before we can talk.

Thanks

PS to everyone else: I have had no internet for a while and I'm borrowing an iPad to make this post (so I must be brief), but please don't leave this forum yet! I want us all to stay connected here for at least a little while longer.

_________________
"We live in a very special time: the only time when we can observationally verify that we live at a very special time!" - Lawrence Krauss


Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:08 am
Profile

Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:16 pm
Posts: 1547
Post Re: This forum is closing - farewell to you all!
Thanks for all the comments - I've appreciated those from you who have pointed out some of the ways this forum has been useful to you in the past.

Several people have mentioned having the forum continue under new management, so to speak - having someone(s) else takeover the admin duties. Here's why that won't work, at least immediately. Officially this forum belongs to KCFS, and runs on the KCFS webhost. I've felt comfortable in continuing to run it under KCFS auspices because, in part, I felt that I could administer it in a manner that the KCFS Board would approve of. At this point, I need to let the KCFS Board know that I am retiring, and that the Board has been put on read-only status. The decision to re-open it with new administrators would have to come from the Board, not from me, and I'm doubtful any of the Board members would want to do that. However, I will let them know what's going on and let them decide. (Technically, that should be "us", not "them", as I am still a nominal Board member.)

I will point out that it is easy to set up a site like this, if someone wants to start a follow-up forum. At Bluehost.com, you can get webhosting for $5 a month (and a domain name cheap), and installing the forum software is a snap - a one-button affair. Once set up, configuration is straightforward, and I'd be glad to answer questions about config if that would help. I would also post a message pointing to your forum. I doubt anyone will take me up on this, but I thought I'd mention it.

_________________
"I would rather live with uncertainty than believe things that are not true." (paraphrased from Feynman)


Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:05 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:11 pm
Posts: 400
Post Re: This forum is closing - farewell to you all!
Jack Krebs wrote:
I will point out that it is easy to set up a site like this, if someone wants to start a follow-up forum. At Bluehost.com, you can get webhosting for $5 a month (and a domain name cheap), and installing the forum software is a snap - a one-button affair. Once set up, configuration is straightforward, and I'd be glad to answer questions about config if that would help. I would also post a message pointing to your forum. I doubt anyone will take me up on this, but I thought I'd mention it.


I will take you up on this. I already have a hosting server. I would only ask that the main KCFS site at least link to my new site once I get phpBB set up on my server.

Thanks

_________________
"We live in a very special time: the only time when we can observationally verify that we live at a very special time!" - Lawrence Krauss


Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:30 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.